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Forum Water Cooler CAN IT BE REVERSED?
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 Subject :CAN IT BE REVERSED?.. 2009-11-06 17:12:24 
Detmurds
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In the event that Obama has his way with cap & trade, and a health care plan, can it be reversed if a responsible conservative was to come into office of the President of the USA (2012)?  Both of these plans are not part of our Constitution, so what do you all think?
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 Subject :Re:CAN IT BE REVERSED?.. 2009-11-07 03:36:40 
rprew
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It will take more than a "conservative" president. It will require a House of Representatives with at least 218 of it's members willing to STOP funding the nonsense. It will take 218 House members, 51 Senators and a constitutionalist president to REVERSE the process (or 290 House members and 67 Senators to override an out of control president).

CAN it be reversed? YES! But it is a whale of a lot easier to prevent a disease (socialism) than it is to cure it. The disease already has a pretty firm foothold. We have our work cut out for us.

Personally, I think it just may be on the STATE LEVEL where we can salvage our freedoms... NOT that I would give up on the federal level... I WOULD NOT! I WILL NOT!

We need good, moral, constitution upholding individuals on EVERY level, dog catcher upwards.
We need an informed electorate.
We do NOT need a defeatist attitude.
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 Subject :Re:CAN IT BE REVERSED?.. 2009-11-07 15:04:58 
Detmurds
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Big problem is,...many Americans do not know how important the Constitution really is.  I am constantly telling people how important it is,....I am in Washington State, ....Western Washington at that and it is liberal beyond the imagination.  Many don't want to hear me, some put up with it and don't soak it in, and a little here and there actually understand me, and take heed.
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 Subject :Re:CAN IT BE REVERSED?.. 2009-11-07 16:41:08 
rprew
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What were the odds that the life of a single individual (Jesus of Nazareth) would have such a tremendous impact on human history?

What were the odds an out manned, out gunned, out trained Mexican army could defeat the French at the Battle of Puebla on May 5, 1862?

What were the odds a ragtag American army could survive the Battle of Brandywine, or survive the winter at Valley Forge? What about the odds of Washington's escape from the Brooklyn Heights? What were the odds of the United States wearing down and defeating the British to gain its independence?

What were the odds that about 200 Texans could hold off over 2000 Mexicans for 12 days, buying critical time for the Texas army to regroup?

What about the Battle of Thermopylae as an example of the power of a patriotic army of freemen defending native soil? While that particular battle was "lost", it had the effect of the ultimate defeat and withdrawal of the invading Persians.

What matters is this: You ARE educating and awakening a few people, just not perhaps as many as you would like. But if each of those people you do awaken then start to educate others, and those others reach still others, who knows what will result!

The results you are seeing may appear scarce, but it could well be only the tip of the iceberg. The Insiders would like nothing better than for us to give up the fight. DON'T GIVE THEM THAT SATISFACTION!
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 Subject :Re:Re:CAN IT BE REVERSED?.. 2009-11-07 17:52:06 
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Very well stated, I wholeheartedly agree.





[rprew 2009-11-07 03:36:40]:

It will take more than a "conservative" president. It will require a House of Representatives with at least 218 of it's members willing to STOP funding the nonsense. It will take 218 House members, 51 Senators and a constitutionalist president to REVERSE the process (or 290 House members and 67 Senators to override an out of control president).

CAN it be reversed? YES! But it is a whale of a lot easier to prevent a disease (socialism) than it is to cure it. The disease already has a pretty firm foothold. We have our work cut out for us.

Personally, I think it just may be on the STATE LEVEL where we can salvage our freedoms... NOT that I would give up on the federal level... I WOULD NOT! I WILL NOT!

We need good, moral, constitution upholding individuals on EVERY level, dog catcher upwards.
We need an informed electorate.
We do NOT need a defeatist attitude.
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 Subject :Re:CAN IT BE REVERSED?.. 2009-11-08 03:49:34 
Detmurds
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I never said I gave up, sorry if I gave that impression.

I am always thinking ahead in what if it does pass and what if it doesn't.  If it does pass,...how can it be reversed.  The planning needs to start soon because one way or another a government bill will go through on this issue.  Sounds like a great bullet for some Conservative candidate running for president?

Many people really think that this health care plan will make things better for them.  I feel angry and sorry for them because they really do not have a clue.  Government has never successfully operated a single thing in a socialized manner except for the military.  

I just wish people of this country would take the time to learn the true hard facts of how our government is mandated to operate, how it is now improperly operating, what our "entitlements" as a U.S. citizen actually are, and stop worrying about who Jessica Simpson is dating!  It is hard to change that "I'm just one person, my voice and vote is meaningless" attitude.  Too many sheep out there.      

I will fight the good fight!  No quitter here!
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Last Edited On: 2009-11-08 03:49:34 By Detmurds for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Re:CAN IT BE REVERSED?.. 2009-11-08 11:56:17 
kdunn
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In regards to Thermopylae, the following is an excerpt from the book 'The Rapture Cult':

"In 480 B.C. the Persian army, estimated to have numbered about three million, advanced down the coast of Greece from the north, threatening to conquer all of Greece and to destroy Greek civilization.  The Greek leaders resolved to resist the Persian invasion at a narrow pass between the mountains and the ocean known as Thermopylae, but it was time for the annual Olympic Games, and the Greeks were torn between their desire to save their country and their desire to participate in the games.  Taking what must have been one of the most foolish gambles in all human history, the Greek leaders dispatched a small force of about 7,000 with orders to hold the pass for a week until the games could be completed and the main army could be sent to reinforce them.  The small defense force, with extreme valor, did succeed in blocking the Persian advance for several days, and might have held out for the entire week had it not been for two other elements which entered the picture.  First, a Greek traitor disclosed to the Persians a secret route over the mountains, bypassing the position of the defenders at Thermopylae.  Then a force of Greeks assigned to guard this path deserted their posts, allowing the Persians to encircle the main defenders and attack from the rear.  Although the Greeks rallied later and saved their country by their naval victory at Salamis, this was not accomplished until after Athens and other Greek cities had been laid waste by the invaders. (emphasis added)

In the tragedy of Thermopylae we can see several striking parallels with our situation today.  We have "American" traitors working with the enemy to destroy our country.  We have a vast majority of our population more interested in playing games than in defending their country.  We have a small but valiant defense force, capable of turning the tide if given adequate support and loyalty.  And we have former defenders who have deserted their posts.

...

We Americanists today face an awesome responsibility.  While we, along with Americans in general, continue to enjoy the comforts and benefits inherited from long centuries of civilizing endeavors, it is only we Americanists who are aware of the extreme precariousness of our whole civilized structure.  Plainly and simply, if America and Western Civilization are to be saved, the saving must be done by a relative handful of informed and dedicated Americanists.  It can be done.

Few in number though we may be, we are... [well equipped] ...to combat the enemy. ...[W]e face not bullets but rather lies, deceit, and treason.  We are in a war the outcome of which will be determined by whether truth of falsehood prevails.  We have the knowledge, the leadership, the organization, the money (although not yet made available in sufficient quantities), and the skills needed to win a war of this nature.  The only necessary ingredient which today appears to be in questionable supply is the will to win.

The burning question today is,... [s]hall we be remembered in history like those who, at the crucial moment in the Battle of Thermopylae, deserted their posts, or like those who fought bravely against overwhelming odds?

Being a Bircher has its rewards as well as its responsibilities.  It puts the patriot into close contact with the finest body of people in the world today, people who know the score and have accepted their responsibilities.  It enables the patriot to become and to remain better informed than he could possibly be on his own, giving him a continually increasing understanding of how all the pieces of the puzzle fit together.  It gives one the overwhelming sense of satisfaction that comes from knowing one is doing his duty, while helping to make history.

...

 We who are John Birchers... are a special breed of people.  Why is it that we, unlike the vast majority, have been able to see through the smokescreen and discern the truth?  The answers are as varied as there are individuals, of course, but let us consider the possibility that, in one way or another, God has placed upon each of us a special burden of responsibility and is watching to see how each of us stands up under that burden.  Some stand and some fall, ... The outcome of this war and the fate of our civilization will be determined, in all probability, by how many do stand, and how well."



[rprew 2009-11-07 16:41:08]:

What about the Battle of Thermopylae as an example of the power of a patriotic army of freemen defending native soil? While that particular battle was "lost", it had the effect of the ultimate defeat and withdrawal of the invading Persians.
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Last Edited On: 2009-11-08 11:56:17 By kdunn for the Reason
Keith Dunn
 Subject :Re:CAN IT BE REVERSED?.. 2009-11-08 16:55:36 
rprew
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Way to go, Detmurds! I understand your concerns, especially considering the House vote on Obamacare last night. We still have the Senate, then the compromise legislation ahead. We haven't lost yet, even though the last skirmish did not go our way.

There is also the possibility of states doing with socialized medicine what Montana and Tennessee (and hopefully soon Ohio) have done with gun control.

Keith: Thank you for expanding upon the Battle of Thermopylae. I gave the very short, very condensed version.

As to why some people see the truth while so many others fail to do so is a good question. I can't speak for ALL Birchers, but of the most active ones of which I am aware there seems to be a strong tendency towards being "a moral and religious people". We are not all of the same denominations, but we agree on the core values of Judeo-Christian ethics. We tend to be more curious about the "whys" of life, especially political and economic life. We tend to think more critically and have more questions. We tend to think more about the consequences of actions. We tend to believe that history DOES repeat itself and that we are wise to study and learn from it.

Being what I call a REAL Christian (as opposed to those I consider cultural Christians, and thus not Christians at all), I am inclined to think God DOES have a role in this. Speaking from this position, God IS Truth. And the more we seek Truth, the more Truth is revealed to us. I'm not going to get all preachy here, but will just say I think this applies, not only in a spiritual sense, but in a practical sense concerning earthly matters.( My two bits!)




[Detmurds 2009-11-08 03:49:34]:

I will fight the good fight!  No quitter here!
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Last Edited On: 2009-11-08 16:55:36 By rprew for the Reason
 Subject :Re:CAN IT BE REVERSED?.. 2009-11-08 09:33:55 
Still Free
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Good Question...

To RPREW  -  Very well put.

To Keith Dunn - Awesome post!

To All:  A great discussion.  Thanks.

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men to do nothing."
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Stand for Something or you will fall for anything.

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Last Edited On: 2009-11-08 09:33:55 By Still Free for the Reason
 Subject :Re:CAN IT BE REVERSED?.. 2009-11-09 13:09:58 
rprew
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Looking at the health care portion of the original concerns, and in light of the weekend's developments:

1) Yes, the House health care bill passed, much to our dismay. The liberals are rejoicing. But... the vote was 220-215. Only 3 votes gave the (liberal) "victory". This was much closer than the liberals had hoped. They may be smiling on camera, but they just had the daylights scared out of them!

2) The Senate has a different version of the health care bill, and it hasn't yet come to a vote. The outcome is not certain... for either side. While the Senate is undoubtedly more in the hands of the Insiders, we still have a chance to kill this thing, PROVIDED WE DO NOT LET UP... PROVIDED WE INCREASE THE PRESSURE!

3) If the Senate passes a version, it will need to be reconciled with the House version. This will mean ANOTHER VOTE! PRESSURE! PRESSURE! PRESSURE! We would need to keep the existing votes and add ONLY THREE MORE. It CAN be done!

4) If a combined bill passes, it will take two to three years for the bureaucracy to be set in place. Only THEN would it become entrenched. That means another election cycle in 2010 (NEXT year).

We should not be discouraged. It was so close we should be encouraged, as the battle is far from over.


HEY PEOPLE! WE'VE ONLY (JUST) LOST A SKIRMISH. THE BATTLE GOES ON, AND WE CAN WIN!


DON"T QUIT NOW!






[Detmurds 2009-11-06 17:12:24]:

In the event that Obama has his way with cap & trade, and a health care plan, can it be reversed if a responsible conservative was to come into office of the President of the USA (2012)?  Both of these plans are not part of our Constitution, so what do you all think?
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