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 Subject :911 Misinformation?.. 2009-10-29 18:10:27 
JustADad
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Joined: 2009-10-29 06:23:38
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I recently received my November JBS bulletin and read Arthur Thompson's excellent article "Terrorism II: The Strategy and Tactics of 9/11". His insight is wonderful and has expanded my understanding of the global terrorism picture and how more of the pieces all come together. I was so impressed I promptly read it out loud to my wife. Very well done!

I'm just a little troubled by the concluding paragraph, "We have no doubt that many of the more titillating stories about 9/11, even unproven claims about government involvement in the treachery...” “Too many very fine people have been taken in by these stories. This too has to stop."

I realize there are some fairly bizarre theories out there that have the potential to completely undermine and discredit the legitimate efforts to uncover the truth. The mainstream media has done a good job in labeling anyone who believes in anything other than the official story as a "nut case". This keeps many good, rational people from doing little more than superficially investigating any contrary claims.

Even suggesting that there are inconsistencies in the official story will turn some people off. So I can understand the need (for the JBS or any organization) to be extremely careful about what they say. When recruiting we are often cautioned to give "milk before meat" when discussing current events with others. But I can't tell whether Mr. Thompson is suggesting caution and careful restraint about jumping to unfounded conclusions, or the belief that any story that suggests government involvement (i.e. controlled demolition) is unsound and perhaps even irrational.

I have wrestled with this issue for years and find myself periodically revisiting the topic. After inundating myself with articles and videos about 9/11 some years ago, I stepped back and tried to take a more objective approach regarding the accusations being made. I've repeated this cycle several times in the intervening years, studying both sides of the issue.

Each time I revisit the topic I come away more convinced then ever that the official explanation is fraught with cover up, lies and deception. The much hyped debunking by Popular Mechanics (and others) that has supposedly "put the issue to rest" is superficial and anything but scientific. Their arguments sound plausible because most of us do not have the kind of background that would allow us to evaluate the evidence and question the errors. They also take advantage of people's reluctance to accept or even consider such a “conspiracy” of this magnitude. The initial reaction is disbelief even when the evidence suggests otherwise.   

Focusing on the primary point of contention (could fires bring down the 3 WTC buildings?) and setting aside all the other more speculative points, the official explanations are sorely lacking. They skirt around and do not even address some of the more problematic points. In typical fashion the mainstream debunkers claim to rely on "scientific" evidence whereas the "theorists" rely primarily on emotion. Nothing could be further from the truth. I believe anyone who objectively studies the evidence will soon come to see how the official explanation is inadequate and defies too many rules of physics. 

Despite off-the-wall claims by some, there are many trustworthy resources available. See "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth" for a less political and more scientific examination of the evidence. David Ray Griffin's book "Debunking 9/11 Debunking" is another excellent resource!

I find the evidence so convincing that I believe any sincere person, seeking the truth (setting aside their initial disbelief), who spends as little as 20 hours researching the information contained in these resources, will come away knowing the official explanation has very serious shortcomings.

How can reasonable people come to such different conclusions? Sometimes it is because they haven't been exposed to the same information. I will never fault a person who after thorough study and investigation comes to a different conclusion from the one I have arrived at. But I would hope for the same consideration from them (no one likes to be viewed as “irrational” or “gullible”). Birchers have to be a bit thick-skinned to handle the many accusations that are hurled at them. That is what makes it disconcerting when a highly respected fellow Bircher raises the question that some of us may have been taken in by irrational 911 conspiracy theories. Am I one of those "fine people who has been taken in"? (I don’t want to be). Perhaps I have misunderstood his concluding comments (sorry if that is the case).

I’m committed to following the truth wherever it leads. I am completely sincere and do not intend to find fault with any of my fellow Birchers (I've seen too many discussions on this topic turn ugly and get personal). I’m not qualified to argue the points in depth. Like others, I have had to rely on the expertise of others. I would simply encourage everyone to keep studying and learning. Don't close your mind to this. New information and evidence keeps coming forth. If I have been misled, I would welcome and appreciate help learning the truth.

Best regards to all valiant fellow Birchers. Keep up the good work!


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Last Edited On: 2009-10-29 18:10:27 By JustADad for the Reason
 Subject :Re:911 Misinformation?.. 2009-10-29 16:26:33 
kdunn
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You may want to watch the "We Are Change NYC interviews Art Thompson, CEO of the John Birch Society Part 2" video on BirchTube (especially the first 3 1/2 minutes).

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Keith Dunn
 Subject :Re:911 Misinformation?.. 2009-10-29 18:30:11 
JustADad
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Thanks Keith for bringing that video to my attention. It was insightful and helps me better understand Mr. Thompson's position.
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Last Edited On: 2009-10-29 18:30:11 By JustADad for the Reason
 Subject :Re:911 Misinformation?.. 2009-10-29 18:49:02 
rprew
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Joined: 2008-07-30 09:47:06
Posts: 131
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Some of the 911 conspiracy theories talk a lot about the temperature needed to melt steel and the temperature at which jet fuel burns, and saying there is no way the fire was hot enough.

Temperature only tells a small part of the story. The burning fuel, and the burning building contents all obviously provide heat. The steel absorbed this heat. What is critical is the difference between how much and for how long heat can be pumper into the steel by the fire, and the rate of heat being dissipated by the steel. If the steel can dissipate heat faster than the fire can provide heat, nothing critical is going to happen. If, however, the steel is unable to dissipate the heat fast enough, it will become hotter. What can happen in this case is that the heat absorption can cause the steel to rise ABOVE the temperature of the fire. How much above depends upon the rates of dissipation and absorption. You can easily demonstrate this by trying to solder a copper pipe with a propane torch. By keeping water in the pipe, dissipation is fast enough to keep the solder from bonding with the copper. Draining the water reduces dissipation, thereby increasing absorption. A body will continue to absorb heat as long as heat is being applied.

Also, the steel never has to get hot enough to melt, but simply lose its strength. Demonstrate this with a metal coat hanger. Straighten out the hanger. Now try to bend the wire. You can bend it, but feel the resistance. Now, use a torch to heat this wire until it begins to glow. Try bending the wire again. It is much easier.

Another argument is the collapse itself. When a section of the steel fails, the building above it is going to collapse into the section. Now we have mass and momentum. What happens is some  product of mass and momentum. Ever watch the car crash test videos? Pretty devastating. In the case of a car, there isn't much mass, but a lot of momentum. In the case of the towers, there initially isn't much momentum, but there is one heck of a lot of mass. As to the lower floors, momentum continues to build, so the forces build on each floor as the building collapses. The steel framework of the building was indeed sufficient to support the building --- under normal conditions of stress. The falling building put unusual stresses on the structure which exceeded design limits. Tensions, torsions, compressions, and sheers. Was a pancake effect possible? A second year engineering student, having completed a class on the mechanics of deformation will tell you yes.

The video linked to above has reference to thermite being found at the scene. What was found was sulfur, which would be expected. The presence of sulfur is not proof of thermite.

Anyway, just some more to think about.
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 Subject :Re:Re:911 Misinformation?.. 2009-10-30 03:45:29 
Publius
Administrator
Joined: 2008-03-28 12:32:24
Posts: 38
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Well said!
 



[rprew 2009-10-29 18:49:02]:

Some of the 911 conspiracy theories talk a lot about the temperature needed to melt steel and the temperature at which jet fuel burns, and saying there is no way the fire was hot enough.

Temperature only tells a small part of the story. The burning fuel, and the burning building contents all obviously provide heat. The steel absorbed this heat. What is critical is the difference between how much and for how long heat can be pumper into the steel by the fire, and the rate of heat being dissipated by the steel. If the steel can dissipate heat faster than the fire can provide heat, nothing critical is going to happen. If, however, the steel is unable to dissipate the heat fast enough, it will become hotter. What can happen in this case is that the heat absorption can cause the steel to rise ABOVE the temperature of the fire. How much above depends upon the rates of dissipation and absorption. You can easily demonstrate this by trying to solder a copper pipe with a propane torch. By keeping water in the pipe, dissipation is fast enough to keep the solder from bonding with the copper. Draining the water reduces dissipation, thereby increasing absorption. A body will continue to absorb heat as long as heat is being applied.

Also, the steel never has to get hot enough to melt, but simply lose its strength. Demonstrate this with a metal coat hanger. Straighten out the hanger. Now try to bend the wire. You can bend it, but feel the resistance. Now, use a torch to heat this wire until it begins to glow. Try bending the wire again. It is much easier.

Another argument is the collapse itself. When a section of the steel fails, the building above it is going to collapse into the section. Now we have mass and momentum. What happens is some  product of mass and momentum. Ever watch the car crash test videos? Pretty devastating. In the case of a car, there isn't much mass, but a lot of momentum. In the case of the towers, there initially isn't much momentum, but there is one heck of a lot of mass. As to the lower floors, momentum continues to build, so the forces build on each floor as the building collapses. The steel framework of the building was indeed sufficient to support the building --- under normal conditions of stress. The falling building put unusual stresses on the structure which exceeded design limits. Tensions, torsions, compressions, and sheers. Was a pancake effect possible? A second year engineering student, having completed a class on the mechanics of deformation will tell you yes.

The video linked to above has reference to thermite being found at the scene. What was found was sulfur, which would be expected. The presence of sulfur is not proof of thermite.

Anyway, just some more to think about.
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 Subject :Re:911 Misinformation?.. 2009-11-02 18:16:23 
Lynette
Bircher
Joined: 2008-07-10 20:45:37
Posts: 126
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There's a good DVD available from the JBS Shop and posted in the community videos.

9/11 Press For Truth
http://www.jbs.org/news-center/birchtube/53-911%3A+Press+for+Truth?userid=94


The thing I like about the video is it presents facts.  It never says inside job, explosives, etc. 

It's a hard-hitting documentary effectively presenting some of the most glaring discrepancies, lies, and cover ups concerning the deadliest terrorist attack on American soil.  It features the families who fought to create The 911 Commission.  It presents many-faceted events that led up to, and then scrutinizes, the 911 Commission hearings and follows some money. 
(2006, 85 min.) 

It asks the question, Why weren't we safe?!!!  And looks for answers so it doesn't happen again!
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